The Engineer vs Torbjörn (Team Fortress vs Overwatch)

 

Intro

“Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been.”

-Albert Einstein


Dell Conagher, the Engineer of Team Fortress.


Torbjörn Lindholm, Overwatch’s long time armorer.


The builders. The inventors. These two short, genius creators play the role of area denial and point defense, but if they fought, who would come out on top? Will Torbjörn’s defenses prove insurmountable, or will Engineer show him how it's done Texas style?

Before we start…

Basically everything official, games, comics, shorts and such with some odd secondary materials here and there.


What? Not every preamble has to be several paragraphs.


Background

Engineer

“I solve practical problems.”


The year was 1850. Wealthy business owner and founder of Mann Co. Zepheniah Mann is convinced by his sons, Redmond and Blutarch, to buy vast swathes of land in the United States. He arrived to find the land was worthless, only to pass on and leave his two sons the worthless land. This would kick off the Gravel Wars, a never ending stalemate fought by both brothers’ hired guns. 


Fast forward about 40 years, and the brothers are still going at it. However, their bodies are starting to give out on them. In secret, Blutarch reached out to genius inventor Radigan Conagher and tasked him to create a life extending machine, allowing him to outlive his brother. Little did Blutarch know, Radigan played both sides; in exchange for some elusive crafting materials, Radigan built an identical life extender for Redmond as well. The Conagher family continued to fuel the pointless feud, with Radigan’s son Fred serving as an engineer on Team Fortress Classic, one of the elite mercenary groups involved in the earlier periods of the Gravel War. However, the Conagher family tree does not end there. 


Little is known about the past of Fred’s son, one Dell Conagher. What we do know is that he was born and raised in Bee Cave, Texas, and that the only thing he knew was that he wanted to make things. Inspired by both his father and grandfather’s work, Dell decided the one thing he wanted to do was become a mercenary. After working 10 years of manual labor in the west Texas oil fields, and earning 11 PhDs in hard science, he was hired by Redmond and Blutarch Mann, alongside a group of other mercenaries, in their never-ending feud as the team’s Engineer in 1968. 


The war would last another 3 years into 1971. The secret third Mann brother, Gray, would feign a peace offer and kill both of his brothers before launching a hostile takeover of Mann Co. The mercs would fight back, however, and much to Gray’s frustration would turn the new robot wars into another stalemate. Wave after wave of bots fell, until Gray changed his approach and took over Mann Co. using his daughter, Olivia due to a rule that you must beat its CEO in a fight for ownership. Mann Co’s CEO Saxton Hale did not wish to fight a child and gave up, putting the mercs out of a job again.


During this time, Dell would spend his time upgrading the life-extending machines of Helen, his team's former Administrator and a descendant of one of Zepheniah’s associates as the rest of his team tracked down the last Australium on earth, a miracle element that powers many powerful technologies. This search led to the end of Gray Mann, but no Australium was left in the world after the Administrator used the last of it to settle a debt...


And that’s where things currently stand and will stand for the rest of time. Thanks Valve!

Torbjörn

“Build ‘em up, break ‘em down.”


Torbjörn Lindholm was born in Gothenburg, Sweden. At a young age, he had a passion for mechanical engineering and design, leading him to eventually leave for University. There, he met his future wife, a woman named Ingrid. After his graduation, he joined SST Laboratories, helping design things like the Bastion units and the colossal Titans and upholding the belief that artificial intelligence should serve a better vision for humanity, leading to a deep mistrust of artificial intelligence in general. He spoke out against AI reliance, but this led to him being unwelcome in many engineering firms.


Torbjörn’s fears came to fruition, however. The robot populations of the world began turning on their makers, beginning a worldwide war known as the Omnic Crisis where many of his own machine designs participated in the carnage. Torbjörn would be recruited into the Overwatch strike team, and with their efforts and his own engineering expertise, would bring a swift end to the war. However, one confrontation in the midst of the conflict had Torbjörn lose his left arm and right eye, though his life was saved by fellow soldier Reinhardt. Overwatch would go on to be a major peacekeeping force through the new world, with advanced armaments that could be linked back to Torbjörn. 


Overwatch would not last forever and was eventually disbanded. Torbjörn would return to his home city and, due to his guilt over his designs’ involvement in the war, stash away much of his technology and designs to stop it from falling into the wrong hands. He would eventually come to hear a report of a damaged Bastion unit in northern Sweden and went to deal with it, but this unit was different from the others. It was non-violent, even forming a bond with a bird in the forest it called its home. He would come to form a friendship with the robot, even upgrading and repairing it. The world was changing, new threats were emerging, and Overwatch had begun reforming, and it seems Torbjörn had changed along with it, fighting to keep his inventions from falling into the wrong hands.


Experience

Engineer


It’s quite the understatement to say that Engineer is extremely intelligent. He has achieved 11 Hard Science PHDs and has invented or upgraded a wide variety of machinery, including his buildings, the life extender, and a brain kept alive in a pumpkin head. He can also decipher and create inventions from Radigan’s old blueprints, which Blutarch could not decipher despite his immense resources. While not as combat focused as other mercs in his team, he’s still had his number of fights, participating in the Gravel Wars and the subsequent Robot Wars.

Torbjörn


Torbjörn was one of the original members of the Overwatch team, and stayed that way until its disbanding. During this time, he fought in numerous battles and participated in several major operations. He’s known far and wide as a brilliant weapons designer, creating several Omnic variants, weapons, armors, and turret systems. It’s stated that his creations were “integral” to ending the Omnic Crisis, and his inventions were still considered incredibly advanced during his tenure with Overwatch. 


Abilities

Engineer

Metal


All of the Engineer's buildings are constructed with Metal. Engineer starts with 200, but can give upgrades to increase it to 600 and regenerate up to 25 Metal per second. All buildings require 200 metal per level to upgrade. The costs are:


  • Normal Sentry - 130 Metal

  • Mini Sentry, Disposable Sentry and Dispenser - 100 Metal

  • Teleporter Entrance/Exit - 50 Metal

Mannpower Power Ups


While participating in the Mannpower gamemode, certain powerups become available for Engineer, as well as any other class to obtain. These powerups can be obtained from the spawn room, or in the midst of combat, and only one can be equipped at a time. The following powerups are available:


  • Strength - Double damage for all weapons. Distance damage fall-off immunity. Doesn't stack with crits.

  • Resistance - Reduces incoming damage by 50%. Immune to Plague, Reflect and blocks backstabs.

  • Vampire - All damage dealt is returned as health. Melee attacks return 1.25x damage as health. 25% damage resistance. Max health increased by 80.

  • Reflect - 80% of damage received is reflected back to the attacker (reflected damage cannot directly cause death). Max health increased to 400. 

  • Haste - Double weapon firing and reload rate. Double clip size and max ammo count. Movement speed increased by 30%. 

  • Regeneration - Ammo, health, and metal regenerate. The rate of health regeneration is inversely proportional to max health.

  • Precision - Greatly reduced bullet spread. Distance damage falloff immunity. Rocket travel speed increased by 250%. Increased blast weapon clip size by 50%. Explosive projectiles have no radius damage falloff. Immunity to self-blast damage.

  • Agility - Movement speed increased by 50%. Grapple speed increase. Jump height increased by 80%. Instant weapon switch. Immune to fall damage. 

  • Knockout - Restricts the carrier to Melee and Grappling Hook only. Max health increased by 175. Immune to airblast and damage pushback. Melee weapon deals 190% of base damage and forcibly shoves the victim away (Doesn't stack with crits). Melee hits force the victim to drop their Powerup or the flag if they have it. 4x melee damage to buildings. Collects health pack health without subtracting their health bonus. 

  • King - Increased max health. Small health regeneration, fire, and reload rate increase. All effects except maximum health increase are shared by nearby teammates. Regeneration effect is inversely proportional to maximum health.

  • Plague - Radius health kit collection. Touching an enemy gives them and their nearby teammates the plague. Plague victims bleed to death in 10 seconds unless they pick up a health kit or touch a resupply cabinet. Plague blocks King's health regeneration and team buff.

  • Supernova - Discharge a supernova attack (grapple secondary fire) to briefly stun nearby visible enemies. Requires full Powerup meter. Powerup meter fills over time, or by dealing damage. Stunned enemies drop their Powerups, and are pushed away from the supernova attacker. Once discharged, the Supernova Powerup disappears and respawns. When the Powerup meter is full, enemies glow when in range.

  • Revenge - Temporary full crit power for 30 seconds.

Critical Hits


Ah yes, a mechanic that has caused no angry internet arguments whatsoever. At complete random, Engineer might gain a three times damage bonus to many of his weapons. He also has some methods in his toolkit that can force critical hits


Resistances

  • Bullets, Explosives, Fire, Critical hits - MVM upgrades can reduce damage from these sources

  • Soul Manipulation - It’s implied that by the end of the TF2 timeline, Medic is the only merc to possess a soul

  • Fear Inducement - While wearing the Saxton Hale Mask or Horseless Headless Horsemann's Head, becomes immune to Horseless Headless Horsemann's Boo taunt

  • Damage Reflection/Disease - Resistance power up counters Plague, Resistance and Vampire power ups counter Reflect

Torbjörn

Role: Damage


A passive ability given to damage dealing Heroes. Enemies will temporarily receive 20% less health from sources when damaged.

Overload


An ability that grants a few increases in stats when used. Namely, faster fire rate and hammer swing speed, damage, health and movement speed for 5 seconds. Takes 10 seconds to recharge.

Molten Core


Torbjörn’s Ultimate ability, sometimes called Ult. He fires several balls of molten slag, dealing sustained damage and lingering after it hits, denying access to affected areas. It deals bonus damage to armored targets.

Resistances


Arsenal

Engineer

Primary Weapons


Engineer’s primary weapons are various shotguns. 


Note: When we have stat changes, we’re basing it off the Stock Shotgun. The same goes for Engineers other weapons


  • Stock Shotgun - Holds 6 rounds, with 32 in reserve.

  • Frontier Justice - Sentry Gun kills and assists stock critical hits that can be used when the sentry gun is destroyed. Has a 50% clip reduction and no random crits.

  • Widowmaker - Doesn’t need to reload, deals a 10% damage buff if the foe is being targeted by a Sentry. It uses metal over actual ammo, but gives metal back based on damage dealt.

  • Pomson 6000 - Does not have an ammo pool, instead it recharges with a pump. Fires a radiation bolt over pellets which drains medic ubercharge and cloak on hit, but deals 20% damage to buildings and has a 33% smaller clip.

  • Rescue Ranger - Fires a bolt over normal shots, with a 33% smaller clip and 50% lower ammo reserve, and applies a death mark when holding a turret. However, its bolt can repair from a distance, and 100 metal can be spent to teleport and pick up buildings from range.

  • Panic Attack - 50% more pellets per shot, and 50% faster deploy time with a fixed shot spread. It suffers a 20% damage penalty and successive shots are less accurate.

Secondaries


Engineer’s secondaries, some pistols but many of them serve a utility function


  • Stock Pistol - 12 rounds with 200 in reserve. He also has the Lugermorph, which is a simple reskin.

  • C.A.P.P.E.R. - Statistically identical to stock, but killed enemies will die from incineration.

  • The Wrangler/Giger Counter - When activated, Engineer’s sentry is put under manual control, overriding its normal range, doubling fire rate and making a shield that reduces incoming damage by 66%. On the flip side, sentries have a 66% reduced rate of health and ammo given from Engineer and the sentry will be deactivated for a few seconds after switching weapons.

  • Short Circuit - Cyborg hand that uses metal for ammo. It fires electricity bolts that can vaporize incoming projectiles like rockets and grenades. Engineer cannot pick up buildings, get critical hits or crit boost the weapon and use metal for ammo. It also has an alt fire that shoots an orb for much more metal but far more coverage.

Wrenches


Melee weapons, however they’re also used to speed up building deployment and give health and ammo to those buildings in exchange for metal.


  • Stock Wrench - Normal wrench, swings every 0.8 seconds. 

  • Gunslinger - A mechanical hand replacement. Instead of a regular sentry, Engineer instead can build a mini-sentry (more later). It increases health by 25 points and 3 consecutive hits causes a critical hit. It cannot randomly crit.

  • Southern Hospitality - Causes bleed on hit. Engineer is 20% more vulnerable to fire damage and cannot randomly crit.

  • Jag - Increases rate of construction by 30% and has 15% faster swing speed. There’s a 20% slower repair rate, 25% damage penalty, and 33% less damage to buildings.

  • Eureka Effect - Lower construction rate by 50% and 20% less metal from dispensers, however 50% less metal to make teleporters. It also has a gimmick where Engineer can teleport to any teleporter exit or to a spawn room.

PDAs


Devices used to select buildings to construct or destroy.

Sentry Guns


The Sentry Mechanical Firing Device, known better as the Sentry Gun, is the primary building of Engineer used for area denial. It works off of motion tracking and seemingly a laser sight, and has its own internal ammunition for bullets and rockets. It can be upgraded to 3 levels


  • Level 1 - Basic, single barreled turret with 150 health

  • Level 2 - Sentry becomes tougher, and gains two miniguns instead of one barrel. Gains a higher fire rate compared to the Level 1

  • Level 3 - Goes up to 216 health. While fire rate remains the same, it sprouts another weapon in the form of 4 rockets at once


When using the Gunslinger, Engineer swaps out his sentries for a Mini Sentry. Keeping with TF2’s theme of balance, it has many advantages and disadvantages


Pros:

  • Costs 100 Metal to build, as opposed to 130

  • Builds faster

  • Fires faster than a level 1

  • Rotates faster

  • A bit smaller


Cons:

  • 100 Health, compared to the level 1’s 150

  • Cannot be upgraded

  • Deals 50% less damage per shot

  • No metal dropped when destroyed

Dispenser


Dispensers give out health, ammo, and metal when Engineer or other teammates stand close to it. Dispensers increase the amount of the above given with an increase in levels. The dial on the front shows how much metal is stockpiled and can be given out, which replenishes over time


  • Level 1 - 10 Health and 20% ammo per second, 40 Metal per 5 seconds

  • Level 2 - 15 Health and 30% ammo per second, 50 Metal per 5 seconds

  • Level 3 - 20 Health and 40% ammo per second, 60 Metal per 5 seconds


Teleporter


Emplacements that allow instantaneous travel between two points, requiring an entrance and exit. Higher levels reduce the recharge time between teleports, going from 10 seconds to 3 seconds at level 3.


MVM Upgrades


After the conclusion of the Gravel Wars, the mercs were thrust into defending Mann Co from Grey Mann’s robot army. To help, they were given access to a host of upgrades, most having 2 - 4 levels


Class:

  • Bullets, Explosives, Fire - Take 25% less damage from these sources per level, up to 75% decrease at level 3

  • Critical Hit Resistance - Same as above, but 30% per level instead

  • Movement Speed Increase - 10% movement speed increase per level, 3 Levels

  • Health Regeneration - +2 Health increase per second, has 5 levels for 10 HP per second

  • Jump Height - 20% jump height per level. 3 Levels

  • Metal Regen - Regenerates 5 Metal per second. 5 levels, regenerating 25 metal per second at it’s best


Primary:

  • Clip Size - 50% clip size per upgrade. 4 Levels

  • Ammo Capacity - 50% ammo reserve per level. 3 Levels

  • Reload Speed - 20% better reload speed per level. 3 Levels

  • Firing Speed - 10% firing speed. 4 Levels

  • Projectile Penetration - Bullets go through targets

  • Health on Kill - +25 HP on kill. 4 Levels, up to 100 HP


Secondary Weapons (Pistols and Short Circuit only):

  • Clip Size - 50% clip size per upgrade. 4 Levels

  • Projectile Penetration - Bullets go through targets

  • Health on Kill - +25 HP on kill. 4 Levels, up to 100 HP

  • Ammo Capacity - 50% ammo reserve per level. 3 Levels

  • Firing Speed - 10% firing speed. 4 Levels


Melee Weapons:

  • Attack Speed - 10% Attack Speed per level. 4 Levels

  • Health on Kill - +25 HP on kill. 4 Levels, up to 100 HP


Building Upgrades:

  • Disposable Sentry - Can create a small sentry. It’s weaker than a mini sentry, and cannot be wrangled, repaired, resupplied or upgraded, but in normal gameplay can be built alongside a normal sentry. Self-Destructs when it runs out of ammo

  • Metal Capacity - 50% maximum metal capacity, capping at 600 Metal

  • Building Health - 100% building health per level. 3 Levels

  • Sentry Firing Speed - 10% sentry gun firing speed per level. 3 Levels

  • 2-Way Teleporters - Teleporter Entrances can be used as exits and vice versa

  • Dispenser Range - Adds 100% range to Dispenser’s distribution radius per level. 3 Levels


Canteen


Canteens are consumable boosts with 3 charges. They are:


  • Ubercharge - Provides an Ubercharge boost, becoming temporarily invincible. Sentries also get a shield that deflects 90% of damage for the duration

  • Crit Boost - Gains 100% critical hit for 5 seconds

  • Refill Clips and Ammo - Take a guess

  • Teleport to Spawn - Self explanatory

  • Building Upgrade - An Engineer exclusive canteen that instantly constructs, repairs and upgrades all active buildings to level 3


Resupply Locker


Due to the Eureka Effect’s ability to teleport to a spawn room, this would arguably give Engineer access to resupply lockers. These fully restore health, ammo, and metal when used

Soul Gargoyle


Halloween event item. Not useful in combat, but killed enemies have their souls collected


Grappling Hook


Used in the Mannpower mode, it does what you would expect and moves Engineer in any direction the hook latches on to. It can also be used as a weapon for some damage, as well as upgraded with the Supernova powerup where it knocks back and stuns enemies in a blast radius

Spellbook


Though only usable during Halloween events, Engineer does possess some magic ability. These take the form of pickups and can be used at any time:

  • Fireball - Shoots a fireball out of his hands, doing damage to an enemy

  • Swarm of Bats - Shoots a glowing ball that turns into a swarm of bats that assault the victims, causing bleed damage

  • Pumpkin MIRV - Throws a bomb that leaves small "Pumpkin Bombs" when it explodes

  • Shadow Leap - Shoots a smoke ball and then gets teleported to the exact point at which the ball landed

  • Blast Jump - Use causes his next jump to blast him into the air

  • Stealth -Turns invisible for 8 seconds as well as healing 40 HP

  • Overheal - Doubles Engineer’s health


There are also “rare spells” that can be obtained


  • Minify - Turns small, which gives him increased speed and damage

  • Meteor Storm - Summons a group of meteors that appear from the sky and land on the victim

  • Ball o' Lightning - Fires a wave of electricity

  • Skeletons Horde - Summons a small army of skeletons to attack his foes. They explode after 30 seconds

  • Summon MONOCULUS - Summons a replica of Monoculus that shoots eye rockets at any hostile targets for at time before disappearing


There are also a series of spells only available while he’s riding in a bumper car. It shouldn’t be usable normally


  • Uber Heal - Heals 50% of damage taken, leaving himself invulnerable for a few seconds

  • Boxing Rocket - Fires a projectile boxing glove, which on a hit launches enemy players and damages them

  • B.A.S.E. Jump - Launches himself up into the air, floating down slowly on a parachute. The spell can also launch nearby enemies when activated

  • Bombinomicon Head - The Bombinomicon appears and gives Engineer a bomb head which explodes and damages him after a period of time. If Engineer can ram another player before it explodes, the explosion affects the person being hit instead


Torbjörn

Rivet Gun


Torbjörn’s main weapon is a Rivet Gun. Using Rivets or molten metal as ammunition, it has two firing modes and can reload after a few seconds if his Hammer is equipped.

  • Primary fire shoots a Rivet at range. Though it has middling speed and fire rate, only 1.96 shots per second, it has good power behind it. Has 18 shots before needing a reload.

  • Alt fire functions as a shotgun, firing bits of molten metal. Has a slightly slower fire rate, and consumes 2 ammo per shot

Forge Hammer


Main tool and go to option for melee. Swings once every ~0.7 seconds. Primary use is to keep his turret alive and upgraded.

IR Shielding Suit


Exactly what it says on the cover, it can fool Infrared Tracking and detection from Titan Omnics

Snare Bombs


Used in the Binary Comic, remote detonated explosive that fire metal threads that can tie up nearby hostiles

Turrets


A deployable, self building turret, and primary method of area denial dealing damage until the target is either dead or out of sight. It can change targets if Torbjörn hits a foe with his Rivet Gun’s primary fire.


While unknown if he has these normally, since he only had them in his workshop, he does also have turrets with freezing and knockback capabilities as well.


Feats

Engineer

Overall


  • One of, if not THE smartest of the 9 mercenaries. 

  • Sentries racked up a kill count of over 215 at one point

  • Helped invent things such as life extending machine upgrades and a way to keep disembodied brains alive

  • Fought in the Gravel Wars

  • Fought against Gray Mann’s robot hordes

Strength


Speed



Durability



Torbjörn

Overall


  • Invented countless weapon systems, armors, and Omnic variants

  • Inventions were quoted as “integral to ending the [Omnic] Crisis”

  • Part of the original Overwatch Strike Team and participated in many missions

  • Stopped Sven’s rampage through Kurjikstan

  • Fought off Null Sector’s incursion in Gothenburg

  • Befriended Bastion


Strength



Speed


  • Ducks out of the way of bullets (above)

  • Rushes and disarms Sven before he gets a shot off


Durability



Scaling

Engineer

Other Mercs


Engineer isn’t the strongest or fastest class physically, but he’s still more than capable of fighting with and against the other members of Team Fortress


Merasmus


As anybody who has ever played Ghost Fort can attest, Merasmus and the Mercs have fought many times



Torbjörn

Other Heroes


While not the strongest or fastest, Torbjörn should broadly be comparable to other Overwatch Heroes


Talon


Same story, should be at least in the ballpark of Talon’s assorted operatives



Misc. Heroes


Weaknesses

Engineer


Engineer doesn’t have the best purpose built toolkit for fighting on his own, preferring his sentries do the heavy lifting. He’s vulnerable when moving his buildings and all of his equipment requires metal to build and maintain. His buildings are also of course immobile by themselves, sentries can’t target invisible enemies, and they can be disabled and destroyed by items like Spy Sappers.


He also stops existing if called dumb

Torbjörn


Torbjörn is far from the best in terms of head to head fights compared to his other comrades. His deployable turrets are fully static and cannot be moved without intentionally destroying them, and he needs to use his hammer to repair them. Lastly, he has no special mobility tools.


Q&A


How much gun?


A lot of Team Fortress players will know that in a non-MvM, casual or competitive match, Engineers are generally allowed to place only one Sentry each, likely to keep the game balanced. However, contrary to what the game shows, Dell is capable of building and placing several Sentries at once. Two notable examples are shown as such in Meet the Engineer, which shows the three levels plus an extra level one all being active at once.



Next, we have what we see near the beginning of Expiration Date, when the RED team is returning to base after a victory, we can see three level ones and a level two which are active at the same time;



And then we have Dell building ANOTHER Sentry while the REDs are fighting the Bread Monster, totalling up to five sentries total in the short.


 


To summarize, while regular gameplay restricts Engineer to a single sentry (minus disposable sentries), we’ve seen that he’s more than capable and willing to build more Sentries for whatever the occasion calls for. TF2 is no stranger to canonical game mechanics, rocket jumping and MVM robots dropping money, among others, but this seems to be one of the few instances where gameplay limitations can be argued.


TF2’s comedic tone


A prevalent argument amongst some people is that TF2 weapon descriptions shouldn’t be taken seriously, since the series has a lot of sillier moments in lore and such which…


…like, yeah? This is a series where Soldier has fought naked and covered in honey at least one million times, rocket jumping was used for 300 years before Abraham Lincoln invented stairs and Australia became a futuristic, technologic superpower in the year 1890, among others. A lot of its item descriptions are naturally going to follow suit with this tone. Even then, the vast majority of feats that matter VS wise come from either direct feats that don’t involve item descriptions whatsoever or are just simple descriptions with a joke thrown in for fun (Engi’s own Pomson is one such example, where it being said to fire radiation beams comes regardless of a joke in the description).

TF2 & Crossover scaling


There was once an era where every game that got released on Steam gave you a TF2 Hat, and more to the point, the mercs have had quite their share of crossovers with other games. While outside of the scope of what’s being discussed, there is one that is valid and can be considered canon.


The Dr. Grordbort universe is effectively a WETA Workshop art project that sells energy weapon props with some extra lore bits attached to it. Of importance is that several of its weapons of course made their way to Team Fortress 2. It’s not uncommon for other universes weaponry to make it to TF2, but this is a more special case since there’s a plethora of blog posts from the Grordbort website that imply it fell through a wormhole and ended up in the TF2 universe (note that the shipping manifest is exactly the items from the Soldier’s Victory item pack). Soldier doesn’t know better, he isn’t exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but cross dimension jumping is backed up when Engineer and Pyro’s own weapons are said to come from another dimension. WETA workshop had close ties with Valve back when these came out, they’re even the reason the Valve offices have TF2 and Portal sentry gun replicas, and the whole thing was one big cross promotion, even getting an announcement in game back when the pack came out


Tl;dr it’s canon to both via assorted comics and website posts, so the odd statement of Grordbort weapon power from non-TF2 sources should be valid


This is important for a pretty simple reason:

TF2’s Subatomic Destruction


Oh hey the whole reason this doc was considered lmao


So what’s going on with this? Essentially, Soldier’s Cow Mangler Rocket Launcher has a statement that it’s capable of “Quantum Disentanglement” in its promotional blurb. This isn’t a thing in the real world, at least as far as we’re aware, but Quantum Entanglement obviously is. The concept of quantum entanglement revolves around superimposed connections between electrons. Electrons are subatomic particles, so to “disentangle” them would theoretically require some sort of subatomic manipulations. It’s helped by the Manmelter and Pomson having their own statements of working on a subatomic scale in some sources, despite the former having a differing kill particle. With the highest number being killing most robots in MvM, which gets just short of 100 Megatons. It can potentially get higher, but Giant Robots in MvM can’t be killed in one hit with traditional means, so we’re erring on the side of caution.


It should be noted that technically the Cow Mangler can’t one shot regular sized bots or players unless it’s a Kunai Spy or something else with 100 HP, but one whole MvM damage upgrade for the Mangler, a Pyro bot reflect and Engi having a even a single explosive resist buff and the issue is resolved.


Titan Omnic’s Volcano Eruption feat


One feat that gets brought up frequently in some circles is Titan Omnics being able to survive cannon shots whose power source has power equivalent to a volcanic eruption. The main writer of this blog has previously spoken out against this since the Omnic does die from this feat.


This is incorrect, it’s fine lol. Other blogs just link to the wrong part of the feat and don’t show the part where turrets powered by the above source can’t damage it, only later being destroyed properly by a much larger cannon and shooting the Titan seemingly in a weaker spot. There’s still a bit of issue in that Torbjörn, Bastion, Reinhardt and Brigitte cannot damage the same Titan with their guns in the same mission (you even get hitmarkers when shooting it), though some other heroes have ways to damage the same model as seen in the Overwatch 2 reveal trailer, so you can likely still somewhat give Torbjörn the scaling.

Moon related feats


Weirdly, both verses have feats involving moon destruction. In TF2’s case, the Mac Update comic has a product called the “iBlewUpTheMoon” just sitting on store shelves, which does what it says on the cover. You can then downscale mercs via Saxton Hale, who can fight, and in some cases, one shot Yeti’s who cannot be stopped by anything on earth. For Overwatch, Doomfist has an intro highlight where he just punches good and the moon gets fractured. Both get into the Petaton range favoring Overwatch if you assume fragmentation with the possibility to get higher using the debris’ Kinetic Energy, though a major issue arises since this is simply far out of the range of power both verses display normally and are likely simple outliers. Coupled with the moon in neither franchise being shown in pieces afterwards which would lead to the assumption that it’s non canon, both feats being done by verse high tiers that would make it questionable if they even scale fully, and in the case of Doomfist, came from a One Punch Man promotion and is likely just referencing Saitama’s strength, it's hard to take either feat fully seriously.


There is also the Grordbort Moonhater Death Ray, but it makes no appearance in TF2 and it's unclear how, or even if anybody scales.


Verdict

Stats


AP is a simple enough affair. Both don’t have a large body of direct feats and are reliant on scaling. TF2’s best comes from scaling to weaponry with sub-atomic destruction statements, which when used against robots can net a hair under 100 Megatons. Torbjörn likely chain scales to Sigma, who can absorb projectiles and convert them to shields, implying Mass/Energy conversion. The best gets to 68 Megatons, and Torbjörn can get a bit higher with his Overload ability, though it’s temporary.


Speed is a bit more lopsided, however. The best you can do for TF2 is a low FTL statement from Scout and arguing Cow Mangler waves are light speed. Overwatch blows this out of the water entirely, however, with basic Omnics being able to perceive within “a microfraction of a microsecond”, aka 1 millionth of a microsecond, aka 1 picosecond, timeframes that can get thousands of times FTL. Both verses have tandem movement arguments and it likely only scales to reaction speeds anyways for Torbs, but it doesn’t make up the difference.


So open and shut case, Engi is marginally stronger/more durable but is blitzed to hell and back.


…well, not quite. See, this is only factoring in base damage for Team Fortress weaponry. The Mann vs Machine gamemode gives the mercs a healthy plethora of upgrades, among them are damage bonuses and resistances to some damage types. The Cow Mangler, the main weapon for Team Fortress vs stats, can up to double its damage with max upgrades. Pyro bot’s ability to reflect projectiles and the simple existence of rocket jumping as a canon mechanic makes it scale back to the mercs. The resistances are also a great boon, as one of them is bullet damage. Torbjörn’s turrets fire bullets and while Rivets are technically not bullets, TF2 is a bit flexible with what counts as a bullet (Sniper arrows and Medic syringes count as bullets, for instance), so it shouldn’t be that far of a stretch that a rivet projectile, effectively a fast moving sharp piece of metal, counts towards this. Resistances go up to 75% reduction, so 68 * 0.25 = Torbjörn dealing an effective 17 Megatons per hit if we assume all his projectiles are hitting with similar strength, widening the gap to about 5.9x, at least without aid from Overload and Mannpower power ups. His hammer melee funnily enough isn’t subject to this penalty. Molten Core is in the realm of possibility of if it’s reduced, Fire Resistance does exist but we don’t know if it's strictly fire or just a general heat resistance.


Still, in general AP and Durability is pretty solidly in Engi’s court at his best, while speed leans far to Torbjörn.

Arsenal/Abilities


Torbjörn has a few good options. While arguable how standard they are since they’re one off items or contextual, Torbjörn’s Snare Bombs and Freeze Turrets are good options for pinning Engineer in place that he doesn’t have much answer to and Knockback turrets are good for forcibly moving Engineer if hit, and…


Alright look, let's not beat around the bush here. Torbjörn just-


-loses. Really badly in this category.


Torbjörn’s main weapon is a projectile weapon with good range that doubles as a shotgun. Shotgun and longer range pistol is the default kit of Engineer.


Engineer’s sentries? Simply better. Setup time is about the same, but Engineer’s is much tougher through having health in far excess of Engineer, fires faster, has rockets for additional damage, and can be moved after placement. Though both fighters can likely deploy multiple of these weapons simultaneously in canon, Engineer can set up his buildings immediately thanks to a canteen, which can be done up to three times without refresh.  Engineer at his best has 600 metal, so with the interpretation he can build multiple guns he can get 4 sentries up immediately and pull the same stunt 2 more times when his metal regenerates.


Molten Core is a good way to damage buildings due to their immobile nature, but Engineer has some ways to deal with it. The Rescue Ranger can heal buildings at range and more importantly can teleport them away from danger for instance.


Engineer not only has mobility options, but have some pretty good ones. He has a grappling hook, some spells give decent mobility if you grant them to Engi, sentry jumping is theoretically something that can be achieved normally even if it’s not brought up canonically, and the Eureka Effect and stationary teleporters can get him out of danger quickly.


Torbjörn lacks any equivalent to dispensers, and Engi has passive health and metal regeneration. This is perhaps one of the most devastating parts of Engineer’s arsenal, his multiple avenues of regenerating his various resources, something Torbjörn lacks entirely. Even though Torbjörn in gameplay can lower enemy health gain, it's only by 20% and temporary, so it's far from a death sentence. Lastly, Engineer has the Eureka Effect, a wrench that makes teleporters cheaper to make but more importantly, teleport to a spawn room and potentially a resupply locker, giving him a complete health, ammo and metal refill. 


At the end of the day, Engineer just has much, much more and better tools for the job. He can keep his buildings alive easier as well as simply better and more versatile, and he can set them up faster. Dispensers give metal, health, and ammo on top of Engineers passive health and metal regeneration. Even if Engineer is in a pinch, he has ways to teleport out of danger or become invulnerable with Ubercharge canteens to bail him out. Engineer can turtle and let all of his guns do the heavy lifting.

Tertiary Factors


Both combatants are as intelligent as one would think given their occupations, though Engineer possesses 11 PhDs and it’s unknown if Torbjörn possesses any. It’s likely Engineer has an intelligence advantage


Both of their experience levels are difficult to quantify since we don’t know how long exactly they’ve been fighting, though it’s likely safe to say they’re in a similar ballpark.

Engineer


Advantages

  • Better AP/Durability, widened by upgrades and power ups

  • More versatile arsenal

  • Better/more varied buildings, and better tools to keep them alive

  • Can set up a sentry nest instantly

  • Has ways to heal himself, which Torbjörn lacks

  • Possesses mobility options and ways to bail out of tricky scenarios

  • Bot accounts and cheaters got hit with a ban wave while this blog was being written and they lost tons of money in Steam inventory items lmao get fucked


Equivalents

  • Likely similar Experience


Disadvantages

  • Slower reactions

  • A few of Torbjörn’s damage methods aren’t subject to damage resistances

  • No good options for Snare Bombs and Freeze turrets if given

  • Comics have been on a cliffhanger for 7 and a half years (and counting)


Torbjörn


Advantages

  • Immensely faster, at least with reactions

  • Hammer isn’t subject to MvM damage reductions

  • Engi has no answer to Snare Bombs and Freeze turrets if given

  • Molten Core is a strong answer to sentries and buildings…


Equivalents

  • Likely similar Experience


Disadvantages

  • Weaker, less durable, and many of his weapons are subject to MvM resistances

  • Less mobile

  • Inferior buildings

  • Building set up is slower

  • Much less staying power due to lacking healing

  • …though Engineer has options for safely healing or removing them from danger

  • Something something Activision-Blizzard


What more can be said? Despite Torbjörn having a few good options and a speed advantage, it's unlikely that speed gap is anything more reactions. He’s far from a speedster character and isn’t the one blitzing Omnics, meaning he’s not going to run around at Jesus Fuck times light speed and kill Engineer before he sets up, not that that would be a simple job. Dell doesn’t quite have the AP/Dura to win through that alone, but it combined with longevity tools is enough that he can get the snowball rolling. Dell can immediately get an entire base up and running instantly and do it multiple times, and rolls Torbs with his arsenal advantage. Every single point of damage is going to add up and it's not like Torbjörn can dodge attacks forever.  Meanwhile, Dell has many ways to regenerate lost resources and his resistance upgrades and power ups are a godsend and would be able to let him outlast and wear down Overwatch’s weaponsmith.


Engineer’s defensive Fortress BLU through the competition, while Torbjörn took Overwatch but wasn’t RED-y for this fight.


Winner



Wait fuck I realized at the end of writing this whole blog I went without referencing this


Next time(s)


You know what


This was meant to have a video reveal but finding music is a bitch and I want to get this out at some point


So screw it, thumbnails of the next 3 blogs that will be released in rough order hopefully maybe, idk it's subject to change

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

Lucy vs Tetsuo (Elfen Lied vs Akira)
-
-
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Zelda vs Nina (Legend of Zelda vs Breath of Fire)
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Marth vs Erdrick (Fire Emblem vs Dragon Quest)
[Yes, full series composites]


Sources

Engineer:

Games:

Team Fortress 2


Comics:

-Catch-Up Comic

-Blood in the Water

-The Naked and the Dead

-Dr. Grordbort’s Crash Landing

-True Meaning

-War!

-Loose Canon

-Gargoyles and Gravel

-Bombinomicon

-A Fate Worse Than Chess

-Mac Update/A Visual History


Shorts:

-Meet the Engineer

-Meet the Demoman

-Meet the Medic

-Meet the Spy

-Expiration Date

-End of the Line

-Mann vs Machine

-Mann vs Machine: The Sound of Medicine

-Jungle Inferno


Websites:

-Official TF2 Website

-Dr. Grordbort’s Infallible Aether Oscillators


Other:

-TF2 Sentry Manual


Torbjörn:

Games:

-Overwatch

-Overwatch 2


Comics:

-A Better World

-Destroyer

-Binary


Shorts/Trailers:

-Overwatch 1 cinematic trailer

-Alive

-Hero

-Shooting Star

-Protector

-A Great Day

-Overwatch 2 reveal trailer


Websites:

-Official Overwatch Website


Books:

-The Hero of Numbani

-Overwatch Visual Source Book


Other:

-Respective wikis for both franchises

-KingCorporeal and his Soldier Blog

-G2’s Pyro vs Sweet Tooth for a few links

-CapeJedi's Hanzo vs Takumi Blog, Loka's Doomfist vs Sundowner Blog, and Matchup Madness' Adam Taurus vs Ramattra Blog for Overwatch feats and calcs

-RatedMforMario for his contributions


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